“Apostles and Prophets in the latter days?” — Section 16
Are there apostles and prophets today?
Representative of a Christian church:
These missionaries and the Church they represent claim that they have inspiration and divinely directed apostles and prophets today. They use as their scriptural support Ephesians 2:19-20. But I claim that their leaders do not meet the qualifications of the apostleship as laid out in the scriptures. First of all, I would ask if the Lord would ‘build again’ on his already-established foundation. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11 tells us that Christ was the foundation, and he is now in heaven. Why then can’t the original apostles be the foundation, and also be in heaven? I feel that we should keep the apostles and prophets that Christ himself put in his original church, and not claim to replace them with apostles and prophets of any modern-day religion. Again, if Christ can be the foundation of the Church and be in heaven, why can’t the original apostles, part of the foundation, also be in heaven? To further support my position, I point out that 1 Corinthians 4:9 is a prophecy by Paul wherein he states that “God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death.” Now, if the apostles were set forth last, how can you claim to have modern apostles? Also, in 1 Corinthians 12:28 we read that the Lord set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, and so on. Then in verse 31 Paul says, “But covet earnestly the best gifts; and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way”. Clearly they were to be shown a better way. 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 tells us “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” When the perfect word of God was ushered in after the revelation of John, then came the fulfillment of the scripture which was in part. The heavens were closed at that point. In James 1:25 we read that the people lived under the “perfect law of liberty” or “that which is perfect” as taught in 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 teaches. Could you please answer these questions, young men?
Missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
We will be happy to answer your questions. You earlier quoted Ephesians 2:19-20, and we would also like to quote Ephesians 4:11-14. These verses tell us that apostles were to continue “till we all come in a unity of the faith”. Romans 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 1:10-14 point out that the early saints had not yet come together in a unity of the faith. The verses in Ephesians also state that “…and he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors, and some teachers.” These he gave for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ. To find the Church of Jesus Christ then and now, we should look for a church with all of the priesthood offices mentioned. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has all of the above offices.
Representative of a Christian church:
Those verses merely referred to ‘inspired’ or ‘enlightened’ apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. All five of those offices are gone now, but we still live by their original inspiration. Also, by the unity of the faith the Lord never meant that the saints should believe the same things and be totally united in all things. In Luke 18:8, the Lord doubted whether he would find faith on the earth when he said, “Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” He knew his disciples could never attain “unity” as you have described it.
Missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
The great apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian saints, “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you: but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians 1:10) That is unity of the faith, to be perfectly united in one mind and judgment, and that is why apostles and prophets were placed in the Church. Unfortunately, the early saints did not achieve the hoped-for unity. This is pointed out in 1 Corinthians 1:10-14 and Romans 16:17-18. Now, my friend, you also asked why Christ , as the Foundation, could live in heaven and the Apostles as Foundation not live in heaven also. In 1 Corinthians 3:10 you will notice that it reads, “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master-builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon.” The “I” in verse 10 was Paul, which proves that Christ could not have been the foundation of the Church because Paul was not even a member of the Church but a Pharisee for years after the death of Christ. Paul did not lay the foundation of the Church. The book of Ephesians answers this question correctly and places the apostles as the foundation of the Church. The foundation that Paul laid could not have been the foundation of the Church. Christ was the foundation of TRUTH. That was the foundation that no other man could lay. John 14:6 says, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. You also mentioned 1 Corinthians 1:9 wherein Paul gave his opinion concerning the future of the apostles. HIs opinion was that these apostles were sent forth last – yet he still taught that they were to “remain until the saints came to a unity of the faith.” Paul was right in a sense, because they were the last apostles sent forth in his dispensation, proving the destruction of the Church. That is why he prophesied that “…grievous wolves would enter in, and destroy the flock.” (Acts 20:29-30) He knew that the sacred crop of apostles would die, and to the generation they were sent forth last but still they were to remain forever. Since we are not at a unity of the faith today, we do have a need for apostles and prophets. You also asked about the ‘…more excellent way…’ mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:31. You inferred that the ‘…more excellent way…’ meant to do away with apostles and prophets and healing, and that inspired men of God would cease. We would note that in verse 31 Paul said, “I show unto you a more excellent way.” It was Paul who was to show the more excellent way, and if it was the Bible, Paul then had to live until the second century for the compilation of the Bible. Remember, Paul was to show this more excellent way. It could not have been the perfect law of liberty, because Paul never mentioned this ‘perfect law’ in any of his writings. Even if he had spoken of that perfect law, 1 Corinthians 3:17 tell us “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty.” Therefore, the day of Pentecost would have been the fulfillment of that scripture because the Lord’s spirit was there in rich abundance, and the people were very united. The more excellent way of 1 Corinthians 12 was eternal life. Paul went on to tell of that wonderful day they would have that excellent way when he spoke of life hereafter in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42, where we would have perfect charity and love for one another.
Representative of a Christian church:
You mentioned that Mormon apostles filled the qualifications as recoded in Christ’s word. However, Acts 1:23 stats that “…one must be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.” The apostles were then chosen as witnesses of the Lord’s resurrection, and this meant that to be an apostle a man had to see the Lord. Gentlemen, I highly doubt that all Mormon apostles and prophets have seen the Lord.
Missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
Your explanation lacks specificity. 1 Corinthians 15:8 informs us that Paul was an apostle “born out of due season”. Apparently this was not a requirement of Paul to see the Lord, although he did see a light and heard his voice on the Damascus road. But there is another problem with your claim. You have defended the Holy Bible as containing ‘all truth’, so could you please point out in the Bible where it says that Barnabus (Acts 14:14) personally saw the Lord. You have previously stated that “…where the Bible speaks, we speak…”. You will need to show us in the Bible where it states that ALL apostles saw the resurrected Lord. Unless you can do that, I don’t know how you can use the qualification that you just stated. We maintain that a man can be a witness of the Lord’s resurrection without seeing the Lord. The Holy Ghost can “…guide men into all truth…” and therefore has the power to bear witness that Jesus is the Christ. In fact, the Holy Ghost can bear such a strong witness that Christ said, “Whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.” (Matthew 12:32) The Holy Ghost has such power that men can prophesy in his name and such prophecies will come to pass. (See Acts 21:10-13) Notice that Agabus did not see the Holy Ghost in Acts 21:10-13, but he bore witness that what he said was by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Apostles had many qualifications. They were to guide the Church to a unity of the faith (Ephesians 4:13), help perfect the Saints (Ephesians 4:12), lead people to a perfect knowledge of the Son of God (Ephesians 4:13). Many of the descriptions of God by modern Christendom are nebulous and unclear, which highlights the need for living apostles and prophets today. The apostles were to serve as missionaries “sent forth” (Matthew 10:1) and to take the gospel to all nations (Matthew 28:19-20), and to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and so forth (Matthew 10:8). I have writings to support each of these qualifications, and I have met these men and know and bear witness to you that they are apostles of the living God. Our apostles travel tens of thousands of miles yearly to all nations. They serve as a great inspiration to the Saints and testify to the world that they are witnesses of the Christ. They heal the sick and perform the mighty works of God, and they are truly witnesses of the Lord’s resurrection. They fill each one of the qualifications of the holy scriptures.
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